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Talk:Genocide
added unicorns As my first edit ever to any wiki, I added unicorns to the list of monsters to reverse-genocide. If you polypile the resulting horns, you might get a magic marker, and thus replace the scrolls used for reverse-genociding unicorns! Riley Riley37 22:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC) Reverse Genocide and Extinctionism Can you reverse genocide extinct monsters? --TBF01 23:25, 25 August 2007 (UTC) Not according to Scroll_of_genocide Checking what you genocided? Is there any way to check to see what you've genocided without dying? (I've played a bit too much Nethack in the past few weeks and can't keep track of what the current character did versus the character who died yesterday, etc...) Strategy I'd love to read a bit on strategy. Can anyone add some tips? Shmoo 06:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC) I have a personal strategy for sea monsters (;) Do not genocide them until you arrive on the plane of water (just deal with them with a ranged attack, eg use a spell of magic missile if you can). Then genocide them will clear nearly completely the plane of water instantly! If you had genocided them before, then they would be replaced with other difficult monsters). Has anyone tried that apart from me ? : Personally, I don't genocide sea monsters at all because they are quite easy to avoid (perhaps except on the plain of Water), and in the mid-game, I value cursed genocides more, and I tend to overprepare for Astral anyway. On the planes, I just teleport them if they grab me, and use normal methods if not (evade, fight, tame, conflict,...). However, if you really want to avoid encounters at all cost, genociding them late is the common sense approach. It might work to storm through the Plane of Water and genocide them only once they pose an actual threat. -Tjr 21:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC) Nymphs If a nymph is robbing you blind, you won't get your stuff back if you genocide her, right? Does a nymph ever steal the amulet? Tjr 22:10, 21 March 2009 (UTC) if you genocide nymphs, then all there stuff falls on the floor, including whatever she stole. 23:32, 21 March 2009 (UTC) Gelatinous cube Is it really worth it to reverse genocide them as a monk... you should have all the interesting intrisincs by the time you got a magic marker, a permanent elbereth method/free action. :According to the shock resistance page, gelatinous cubes are the only vegan corpses to give shock resistance, and brown puddings are the only other vegetarian corpse (black pudding are not vegetarian). Shock resistance is also the last resistance granted for monks by leveling up, and the exponential XP requirements mean the character would need to go a decent amount of time before hitting level 15 - not to mention other roles going vegetarian for the conduct. A gelatinous cube is also the only source of sleep resistance besides divine favor, and I would personally not be required to wear a ring of free action all the time to avoid wands of sleep. The other resistances are also certainly helpful for an early character that chances upon a scroll. I'd say it's definitely worth it, although maybe the page should say vegetarian players and not just monks, as non-monk vegetarians would actually benefit more. -- Qazmlpok 21:49, October 1, 2009 (UTC) watch for name conflicts? It might be worth adding something definitive about what happens when a monster name is the same as the class name. I was faced by water moccassins, so genocided snakes...but it only worked on snakes, not ALL snakes. Which leaves me wondering, if it has been a blessed scroll, would it have genocided all snakes, or just snakes called snakes? I would expect all snakes, but is that the case? Did that make any sense at all? 09:31, October 17, 2009 (UTC)MartinB :If it was a blessed scroll, it would ask "what class" of monsters would you like to genocide. You would enter "S" and all monsters that appear as "S" will be removed. -- 17:35, November 24, 2009 (UTC) Genociding Mimics Doesn't Increase Orcus Town Items Instead, you get a bunch of empty spots where the mimics would have been. I didn't change the article itself because I haven't verified this with the actual code, but I did genocide them before entering Gehennom and found the shops half empty. :I just tried it in wizard mode and found it did increase the number of items. It's quite possible you had visited it but hadn't realized it; the maze outside of Orcus Town looks just like the rest of Gehennom. Also, monsters may have picked up some of the items - the skeletons in Orcus Town seem to be fond of doing that. And there is a very, very slim chance it was a bones level, unlikely but possible. If you ask me though, I think about 10 or so extra items is hardly worth a blessed scroll of genocide anyway, especially since by that point in the game you probably have your ascension kit together or mostly so anyway. -Ion frigate 10:50, February 21, 2010 (UTC) Reverse genocide and movement Reverse genocide sends in a number of monsters. Are these monsters guaranteed to not move until after your next turn? This seems to be the case from experience, and I just tried it with warhorses while polymorphed into a skeleton (to give a huge difference in speed), and even then they didn't move until after I got a turn. So is this absolutely guaranteed, or am I getting lucky? -- Qazmlpok 14:05, May 31, 2010 (UTC) : Do you have in mind some way to exploit this? -Tjr 15:07, June 1, 2010 (UTC) ::A character could get a good number of powerful pets through reverse genociding minotaurs (as an example) and taming them. Minotaurs would work well because they hit hard and will never resist taming. They're certainly not the best pets, but I know from experience on my pacifist ascension that if you tame a lot of minotaurs and have a magic whistle, stuff dies. Really fast. In SLASH'EM it could be used to tame a large number of gnoll (warrior)s, as they can grow up into a gnoll chieftain and reach level 45, or shoggoths (level 49). However this is extremely dependent upon the summoned monsters not getting a turn before you do. Reverse genocided minotaurs would tear you apart, doubly so as they don't respect Elbereth. And any monster that does respect Elbereth would move away from you and get out of taming range, requiring either an elaborate Elbereth cage, a magic harp, or confusion and a scroll of taming. It's just another idea on a method to get powerful pets early and with little risk (but moderate cost, as it'll probably require high luck and a magic marker to get both scrolls), doubly so since polymorph traps in SLASH'EM aren't permanent. -- Qazmlpok 16:08, June 1, 2010 (UTC) :::What's the problem with an Elbereth cage? It's only 17 E-squares, 8 if in a corner. ... Dragon_scale_mail#Acquiring_dragon_scales -Tjr 17:05, June 1, 2010 (UTC) ::::I don't think Elbereth cages are a valid strategy for non-wizards, or more specifically players without an atahame. If I do a SLASH'EM pacifist ascension, I'm planning on trying for a dwarven caveman (lawful=minions, dwarf=peaceful gnomes and dwarves, can gain alignment through cannibalism as well). The only way I would be able to engrave with an athame would be to wish for an athame, or maybe Firewall. Failing that, I'd have to use junk weapons (time consuming), dust (not practical), or wands (wasteful). Furthermore it'd be useless against a minotaur if it IS possible for the summoned monsters to get a turn in, and minotaurs are probably the best choice if I have a magic whistle, as unlike the higher level monsters they don't turn traitor. Actually, one option would be to summon dragons, try to tame them and get most (20 MR) and have the tame and untame ones kill each other. That would definitely require a cage, due to the breath. ::::I could be wrong about the feasibility of a mid/early game non-wizard creating an Elbereth cage, as I've never actually made one. I've always either felt I didn't have the resources or didn't have the need. -- Qazmlpok 22:21, June 1, 2010 (UTC) :::::Elbereth-cage: For the outer squares, a maximum length string of dust Elbereth is more than sufficient. Just check there are at least four of them intact. You need one turn to move away, and you can smudge at most three letters per turn by movement alone. (See talk:Elbereth for a smudging mini-spoiler.) For the fighting spot, things are a bit more delicate. In my experience, a maximum length string of semi-permanent Elbereth is sufficient. You can engrave with certain rings (starting inventory, Sokoban) or hard gems (Mines). Of course, you have to prepare all this _before_ summoning the monsters; an athame only makes it more convenient. Tjr 11:10, June 2, 2010 (UTC) ::::: Update: The engraving page claims you can smudge up to 5 letters, so 6 dust-E are safe.Tjr 12:03, June 2, 2010 (UTC) Liches and Athames It's true that high-level liches occasionally carry athames, but it seems a little crazy to refuse to genocide L in the hope that an arch-lich will drop an athame for you. You'd have to kill three arch-liches to get over 50% chance of an athame, and if your character is strong enough to take out arch-liches like that you don't ''need ''an athame once you've genocided arch-liches. You won't get caught in any summoning storms until you start running into Titans and Archons, and you should have enough wands to burn Elbereth as often as you need to. -- 01:08, June 10, 2010 (UTC) :Yes and no; athames do have some benefits over wands. The fact that they don't run out makes you more likely to actually use them; it's far too easy to not engrave Elbereth when you should, because you were trying to conserve charges on your wand. Also, they're great for fighting your way to the up staircase. You don't need permanent E-squares because you aren't planning to stay where you are, but you may need a lot of them if you're far from the up stairs. Also, wands of lightning always blind you when you engrave with them: this can really be bad if you move off your E-square, since you now can't engrave reliably. Personally, I like to use athames for most cases, and save the wands for truly dangerous enemies, such as mind flayers and Demogorgon. -Ion frigate 06:03, June 10, 2010 (UTC) ::Are there numbers (NAO?) on how many people actually get their first athame from a lich? I personally never have, not even in conduct games without Magicbane. Tjr 13:29, June 10, 2010 (UTC) :::I have once (genoless monk who fell down to the castle through a trapdoor). That's out of only about three or four games where it might have happened. Of course the most Elberething I did in that game was when I was desperately running back to the stairs and hoping the arch-lich didn't use the touch of death, because I hadn't done the quest yet and lacked magic resistance. :::Anyway, it may just be because I play a pretty Elbereth-light style, but I really find that wands serve fine, and that Ls are the most common late-game cause of Elbereths, direct or indirect. There's only one Demogorgon, who's pretty unlikely to appear in vanilla, and master mind flayers are a lot rarer and easier to escape when you don't have Ls summoning nasties at you. Whereas a summoning storm from an arch-lich on a no-teleport level is a huge mess, especially when you have to cross it five times thanks to the mysterious force. (And it was Juiblex's swamp, so I wasn't engraving anything anyhow.) -- I guess I hadn't thought of the lightning problem, since the characters that had to engrave a lot were monks and didn't have to worry about blindness. But the reason they had to engrave a lot was that they hadn't genocided L. (I might change my tune if I ever meet an Archon as a non-Lawful.) :::Original post was from me, BTW -- sorry for not signing. -- Slandor 23:33, June 30, 2010 (UTC) ::: Reverse genocide and resulting equipment Has anyone else noticed that summoned monsters (via reverse genocide) don't get outfitted with normal equipment? So, while reverse genociding unicorns generally gets you plenty of horns, reverse genociding Yendorian Army Captains (@) doesn't seem to give you the desired silver sabers! So corpses, horns, worm teeth can be expected. But nymphs won't have potions of object detection, and Captains won't have silver sabers? Next attempt: farming magic trap for Captains! 03:38, August 12, 2014 (UTC)Arnibald